[CivicAccess-discuss] Fwd: DataBC (Beta) is now live. COMMERCIAL re-use

Tue Jul 19 18:38:50 EDT 2011

Hey gang!

I have no problem with commercialization I do have a problem with us getting
grumpy when government disseminates information in non open formats and then
apps developers use the very open data government provided, do not attribute
the source of the data and and then close their code and at times also
restrict access to the very data they advocated for.  That is what I was
referring to.

There is also a cultural disconnect between open source communities and open
data communities and then again with community groups.  The open source
communities have matured and have learned to be entrepreneurs in an open
environment whereas many of the new apps developers have not been
acculturated into those practices and are often less politicized about what
they developed and about the policies around open data.  The ethos of just
making stuff is excellent, and we have all seen really interesting apps
developed as a result, but we have not seen issues around the policy of
access such as licensing, transparency or engagement with data and public
policy or as part of the public policy process or evidence based decision
making.  Transit apps but not engagement in transit committees using transit
data for example.  Community groups do that, but alas, most of the data
available in open data cities are not the types of data many community based
researchers use.

There are many successful open source businesses.  Carleton University's
Tony Bailetti has created an innovation space for his students (
http://sprott.carleton.ca/news/2011/tony_bailetti_ocri.html) and has
tirelessly worked with open source entrepreneurs.  He has also created the
Open Source Business Resource (http://www.osbr.ca/ojs/index.php/osbr), which
is a monthly newsletter of excellent innovative and commercialized open
source companies, initiatives and products.

Quebec has also been great at creating a national open source agenda and for
changing the province's procurement processes to enable local developers to
participate in economies created by government procurement.  That also means
that universities have to focus on training students to do open source, and
it means that bureaucrats need to change how they tender and developers need
to become more accountable and adopt business models that will work and
scale.  That took much politicking to make that happen.

The ROC, and open data apps developers are not quite there yet, and I hope
they do get there soon as the app contest model in the long term may
undermine their wish for business in the future.  Procurement practices have
to change for them to be able to bid on projects like the big kids.  I hear
murmurs of that discussion, but it is not yet the norm.

Gotta go!
Ciao for now
t

On Tue, Jul 19, 2011 at 4:18 PM, michael gurstein <gurstein at gmail.com>wrote:

> **
> And I'm made a bit nervous when there is no attention paid to the
> circumstances/conditions under which the public asset is made "open" which I
> would suggest determines to a considerable degree (it would be interesting
> to figure how much) the extent to which the data in fact is used by
> business, or not for profits, or grassroots, (or all, some, or none of the
> above).
>
> Clearly not all data will or could be usable by everyone, nor should it;
> but I would very much like a lot more thought and research being put into
> how data is being made "open" and what the conditions might be for making
> use of the data once available.
>
> M
>
>  -----Original Message-----
> *From:* civicaccess-discuss-bounces at civicaccess.ca [mailto:
> civicaccess-discuss-bounces at civicaccess.ca] *On Behalf Of *David Eaves
> *Sent:* Tuesday, July 19, 2011 12:08 PM
> *To:* civicaccess-discuss at civicaccess.ca
> *Subject:* Re: [CivicAccess-discuss] Fwd: DataBC (Beta) is now live.
> COMMERCIAL re-use
>
> Hear, hear Gerard.
>
> The openness of app developers is not what is under debate here. They are
> not a public asset - the data they are using is, as long as it is shared
> openly, by governments, I could care less what the users do with it (as long
> as it is legal) or what model (business, non-profit, open or closed) they
> adopt.
>
> Anything that veers into a debate of that kind makes me very nervous.
>
>
>
> On 11-07-19 11:10 AM, Content Research wrote:
>
>  Dear Tracey,****
>
> ****
>
> your wrote:****
>
> Even apps developers are closing their apps and selling them with open data
> inside them, hardly in keeping with the ideas of openness ****
>
> ****
>
> ****
>
> (we all bear in mind that PSI re-use and OGD do constitute different
> topics. But anyway, there are interrelated to a certain extent).****
>
> ****
>
> When the European Commission in 1987 and later in 2000 started to push open
> data,  they had the following telos in mind:****
>
> ****
>
> <!--[if !supportLists]-->a.       <!--[endif]-->Jobs in the ICT and
> telecom sector did already stagnate, and no further jobs were created.
> Nowadays they even sack employees.****
>
> <!--[if !supportLists]-->b.      <!--[endif]-->Therefore they thought that
> INSTEAD the CONTENT sector might great new jobs – and primarily LOCAL jobs,
> done by SMEs****
>
> <!--[if !supportLists]-->c.       <!--[endif]-->Therefore, they pushed the
> PSI re-use to provide them with fresh and cheap raw material.****
>
> ****
>
> I listened to Richard Stallman two weeks ago in Vienna. I do share his
> thoughts. But anyway, somebody has to create new jobs to help us out of the
> economic crisis.****
>
> ****
>
> Kind regards from lazy Europe,****
>
> ****
>
> ****
>
> Gerard****
>
> ****
>
> ****
>
> ****
>
> *Von:* civicaccess-discuss-bounces at civicaccess.ca [
> mailto:civicaccess-discuss-bounces at civicaccess.ca<civicaccess-discuss-bounces at civicaccess.ca>]
> *Im Auftrag von *Tracey P. Lauriault
> *Gesendet:* Dienstag, 19. Juli 2011 19:19
> *An:* civicaccess discuss
> *Betreff:* Re: [CivicAccess-discuss] Fwd: DataBC (Beta) is now live.****
>
> ****
>
> It is good to have home grown, even better to build on international
> examples to foster greater legal and policy interoperability. ****
>
> ****
>
> Canadian  'open data' licencing is a balkanized system. What is legal in
> one town or province/territory conflicts with another or other levels of
> government and also internationaly.  Even apps developers are closing their
> apps and selling them with open data inside them, hardly in keeping with the
> ideas of openness - $ could be made with open source apps using open data -
> apps licencing and open data licencing.****
>
> ****
>
> It would be really great if we could encourage cities, provinces,
> territories, national departments and agencies to work more closely with
> CIPPIC and with each other to aim towards some sort of unity in licensing
> and understandings of what openness really is.  The UK, New Zealand and
> Australia are examples of this type of CC licensing. They are Westminster
> systems like Canada's and we could embrace something like this if only we
> worked together more and worked with the public legal agencies that can best
> lead us toward better licensing.  Open data citizens, I would argue, need to
> foreground licencing along with their hackfest ideals & apps development
> zeal.****
>
> ****
>
> I know this is a dry read, and that I have mentioned it on numerous
> occasions, but worth reading nonetheless -
> http://www.cippic.ca/open-licensing/.****
>
> ****
>
> Cheers****
>
> t****
>
> ****
>
> ****
>
> On Tue, Jul 19, 2011 at 1:02 PM, Michael Mulley <michael at michaelmulley.com>
> wrote:****
>
> In particular, I read the license the data is available under and
> started grinning. It's based on the UK opengov license, but it's a
> custom BC version, which in this case may be good: a homegrown
> Canadian example, created by a provincial government. David Eaves
> wrote more this morning:
>
> http://eaves.ca/2011/07/19/province-of-bc-launches-open-data-catalog-what-works/
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Pamela MacDonald <pamelamacd at gmail.com>
> Date: Tue, Jul 19, 2011 at 12:51 PM
> Subject: [OpenDataBC] DataBC (Beta) is now live.
> To: OpenDataBC <opendatabc at googlegroups.com>
>
>
> http://www.data.gov.bc.ca/dbc/index.page?
>
> The Province has launched their new site and included the first
> release of datasets in the link above.
>
> Pamela
> _______________________________________________
> CivicAccess-discuss mailing list
> CivicAccess-discuss at civicaccess.ca
> http://lists.pwd.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss****
>
>
>
>
> --
> Tracey P. Lauriault
> 613-234-2805****
>
> http://traceyplauriault.ca/****
>
> ****
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> CivicAccess-discuss mailing listCivicAccess-discuss at civicaccess.cahttp://lists.pwd.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss
>
>
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-- 
Tracey P. Lauriault
613-234-2805
http://traceyplauriault.ca/
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